Ep 24: Why You Need an Interior Designer On Your Team

Today we are talking about an essential team member you need to find today if you're serious about making a big return on your investments -- and that's an interior designer.

We are talking to my personal interior designer today Annie Pauza from Decorator in a Box.

Annie has worked with some high-performance clients including professional athletes and celebrities.

She brings an incredible amount of experience to the podcast today and will talk about the major difference between an interior designer and an interior decorator, how interior design brings value to your customers, what sets designers apart, and how much it costs to have a designer on your team.

Ready to take your investments up a few notches? This is the episode.

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In This Episode

13:00 What does interior design give you that you would actually stick with it for 21 years?

17:45 When I'm looking for an interior designer? How do I know how the right one?

31:30 how do you bring value to me in your mind, and help me get that ROI that I need to get?

50:00 How does your online business design so many looks?

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Full Transcript

Tim Murphy 0:00

Welcome back to the value driven investor podcast, I'm excited to have you guys back for another episode. And this episode, I think is gonna bring you guys a ton of value. Because today, we're gonna dive deep into the value driven investor interior design. Because when it comes to increasing your return on investment, you need to pay attention to the interior design, then design in general, is what I believe to be one of the most important things when you're trying to increase the value of any property. So back in episode 14, we talked about how to design your product, so it sells fast. I believe that that episode was a great introduction episode around designing, and it was coming from the investors perspective, probably my perspective or Bob's perspective. Then on Episode 15, we talked about finding the right interior designer and I told some really fantastic stories I toured, HUD told a horror story about a diva designer, who I just could not handle and I had to fire. And then I told the story about a fantastic person that I work with Gil, who I've been working with for a long, long time, and how that relationship was great because Jill always committed to being a team player. Well, today, I'm excited to have Annie, my own personal interior designer on the podcast. And Annie is someone that I have just started working with. But I've known for a lifetime because we've known each other all the way back into high school. So that's really fun. And so I'm excited because today we're going to talk about why you should seriously consider having an interior designer on your team. We're going to talk about the designer and the client experience. We're going to talk about the cost of having an interior designer and how they charge you fees. Because that can be very confusing. And we can talk about the how, what sets one designer apart from another like, how do you know if this designer that you're interviewing that you've never worked with is going to be a good fit? So Hi, Annie, how are you doing? And I'm super excited.

Annie Pauza 2:05

Great to see you. Thanks for having me.

Tim Murphy 2:08

Yeah, this is gonna be fun. Um, I think we should start it off because Andy and I have a long history because I actually played hockey with her brother. Yeah, high school. And she was younger than me. But I always knew of Annie and whenever I would go over to his house, he'd see Annie at the house. And how many years younger were you than your brother? Two years? Yeah. Two years. Yeah. So and he was actually in high school at the same time as me. Yeah. And it's just fun because she had left the state of Minnesota. And she kind of traveled around the country. I believe you lived in Florida, California. And then you made your way back here to Minnesota, right? Yeah.

Annie Pauza 2:45

Yeah, I think I knew you. Back. Did you have a hockey mullet? I think you might have had a hockey might have

Tim Murphy 2:52

a mole and I had hair like this. Like come on. And you don't call it I know.

Annie Pauza 2:55

It might have been like bordering a hockey. I don't know all you guys had hair like this? Yeah, I play baseball with my husband, Tom. So yeah, we've got a good history together. So it's really fun to be be working with you. And

Tim Murphy 3:12

in Episode 15, I talked about that, because that was the same thing with Jill's. I had a history, I knew who I was getting into a business relationship with. And I knew their personality, and I knew how they would handle adversity. Because really, at the end of the day, whenever I bring on anybody on my team, it's it's all about I always say this, it's all about, like, you can think you know who you're working with you can they can everybody can sell you on whatever, you know, because that's their job is to sell you on their personality and the experience, right. But once you get into war, and the bullets start flying and things don't go the way you want, right, that's when you really realize who you're working with.

Annie Pauza 3:50

And that's construction process throws a lot of curveballs. Were Yeah. Oh, yeah. The bullets.

Tim Murphy 3:58

Oh, yeah. Does. So any I want to start off because I think it's important that everybody gets a background. Now, before any goes into a background. I want to give a little context on what Andy and I are doing. So any came back to Minnesota. And I was like, Hey, Annie, you know, what are you doing interior design. She's like, Yeah, I've been doing interior design for years. Like that's really cool, because I'm looking for another interior designer to add maybe a different flavor on some of the products that I'm doing because I've been working with Jill for so long. I still work with her. I still love her. But it's you know, every interior designers like an artist, like they just look at things and they do things just a little different. And I was like, maybe we can work together. And he's like, Of course we can work together. Well, it took a little while for me to warm up to the idea. But what I did was is I actually had Annie come and do an interior design on my own personal house. And the experience was so amazing. And my one of the reasons why the experience was so amazing for me it was because my wife was absolutely like in heaven when it came to Annie. Oh number one her ability to answer all the questions, her attention to detail. My wife is not visual at all, any actually, like made this huge plan and drew everything out and like literally picked every little nuance of every little thing. And I definitely working with Jill and then working with you you there is two different flavors there. And I love you guys both. But today, let's talk about you. So give us a little bit of your history of like, when did interior design even enter your mindset? And like when did you say you know what I'm going after this.

Annie Pauza 5:32

So ever since I was a little girl I would say like 10 or 12 My parents hired an interior designer from a custom furniture store called expressions when I lived in Spokane, Washington. And so this designer came out to the house and she's working with my mom picking out wallpaper and the fabric that she's going to repost her her chairs in and immediately I thought that looked like the most fun job imaginable I would I even one of my fourth grade friends to this day. She's like, I remember coming over to your house and we would play interior designer. So I just I got the interior design bug really early on. And it just it never left. I remember all through elementary school high school that was always in, in my mind to that I would be an interior designer someday.

Tim Murphy 6:26

Your mom was pretty creative, wasn't she? Yeah, she

Annie Pauza 6:29

always really wanted a nice house put together and she wasn't afraid to like do a purple sectional or do something kind of bold. I remember a lot of people

Tim Murphy 6:39

may be scared of Eddie like that's what I loved about your mom.

Annie Pauza 6:43

She wanted it to kind of stand out a little bit. So I do remember friends coming over and we're, you know, we're in Minnesota at that point. And I think maybe my mom was a little bit edgier. As far as most Minnesotan interior designs go, which could probably be kind of beige and plain vanilla. I do remember people walking in like, Whoa, you got a purple sofa. And my bedroom was really cool. They put French doors in these two small rooms. And so I had a sitting room. And then I had like a day bed area. So my girlfriend's would come over and we'd sit in to swivel chairs that had a really bold plaid fabric on and fun wallpaper. So yeah, it was inviting. My grandmother was like that, too. Like they just kind of had a knack for it yet my mom didn't have enough of a knack that she would do it on our own, she would kind of hire some help with it. And so they wanted kind of a house that was put together and had some style to it always

Tim Murphy 7:41

when it came to education. So you graduate high school, did you go get interior design education, like tell us when you started like, Okay, I'm gonna be an interior design professional.

Annie Pauza 7:51

So I initially I wanted to get all my like elective classes done and then transfer to the U of M with both classes. So I found out which classes I needed. And then I wanted to just do the interior design program at the U of M. When I got done, I think I went to Inver Grove and got those electives done. I went to transfer to U of M and they wouldn't accept the courses. Luckily, Dakota County Technical College has a really I would recommend to any aspiring interior designer in Minnesota, go to Dakota County, get your interior design degree. It was fighter accredited, which means it has the same design curriculum as the U of M but you're going to get done in two years and you're going to get out in the field that much faster. And they teach you everything you need to know as interior design is really as much as there is an artist side to it and a decorating side to it. It's really also very technical you it's an interior architecture degrees. So when you learn interior design, you're learning AutoCAD you're learning how to draft an entire set of plans like an interior designer should know how to do an electrical plan, a reflected ceiling plan, a furniture plan, demolition drawings if needed. That's not something that I do with how my career has evolved today but that's what they teach you in design school and I think a lot of people that go into interior design are thrown off by that because they think it's an interior decorating degree which is more picking out furniture, art and accessories but design is next level up where you're learning the architecture as well as the picking fabrics and what the fabric rating is. If you're going into a commercial space you need to know you know how resistant it is to multiple people sitting on it. Is it fire flame resistant, so it's a really intense program and I loved design school, it was great. And it got me. It got me a degree in two years. And it helped me find a really great internship as well, which was like learning the stuff you can't learn in school to how to how to run a business side of things.

Tim Murphy 10:18

When you were in interior design to the school, I mean, obviously, you know, you kind of set it, I didn't really go down the area of like, demo, or I didn't go in on the area of electrical or engineering, I went down more of an area of this, what I mean, what did it what did you learn you didn't like about interior design? And what did you learn that you love about interior design? And then like, you took that path, which what was it?

Annie Pauza 10:43

Well, kind of, I loved all of it. So I do love the technical side of it. And design firms that I've worked at that learning how to do an electrical plan or a reflected ceiling plan, when you're doing a multi million dollar home, especially you need to know how to do reflected ceiling plans and things like that. So there, I loved that side of it. But I think I initially started out doing high end design, where like, with our more architectural firm type stuff, doing a little bit of commercial, or homes that are almost like commercial spaces, where I feel like what I'm doing now is more like getting the interior selections, done tile paint, you know, that kind of stuff. But there was a there was a time and place for that in my, my career where you didn't need to. And I put that to use to

Tim Murphy 11:38

know I want to I'm a big believer in like, why and what was the purpose that interior design is going to fill for you. Because I feel like if you do something and it's just for the money, it you're gonna get sick of it, you're gonna get burned out, you have been doing interior design for how many years?

Annie Pauza 11:57

At 21 years? Now.

Tim Murphy 12:01

That's a long time, you know? 21 years and in your head since she was a kid, it's probably been for 30 years. Right? Right. Um, but like, so you obviously are driven by purpose. And you have a big why of like, why you get fulfillment from the interior design? What what is that? What does interior design give you that you would actually stick with it for 21 years?

Annie Pauza 12:24

Well, it's it's just giving people not it's taking their house and making it their home, it has such a impact on people's lives for their, their mental health. And just walking into your space and having it be comfortable and having you know that place to go curl up and snuggle and watch a movie and having the right sofa to to do that or that area to go get comfortable and read a book or how your How does your kitchen function when you have the family over. And it's 20 people for Thanksgiving and Christmas, it just, it impacts their life on a day to day basis. So that's much more than than the financial aspect of it is just seeing how it changes people's lives once they get a space functioning, well looking how they want and just reflecting not my style, but what their personal style is.

Tim Murphy 13:24

I think over the years, I've realized that there's two kinds of people, there's a person that's emotionally intelligent. And then there's a person that's IQ, intelligent, emotionally intelligent, would be someone that has a very good read on their surroundings, and the people around them, their environments, they can see things that other people can't see. They're aware of things that other people aren't aware of, on multiple different levels of emotion. And then you have a IQ person, which is you know, just someone that's like Einstein, like the guy just can see numbers literally floating in the air and he picks them out and he can create equations and scientists and doctors and they're IQ smart. Right? Which one are you?

Annie Pauza 14:07

Oh, I'm definitely emotionally smart. I definitely in touch with even if I'm in a room, I feel like I could pick up on somebody's feelings by taking two looks at them if they're feeling kind of stressed or sad or you know, and it's sometimes it's hard to turn that off. If you're in a room of people that seem upset or having I just I think I radiate people's feelings kind of radiate off of them. And I feel that so I guess that's emotional. And yeah,

Tim Murphy 14:42

I would definitely say being around you that you're definitely emotionally intelligent and I can tell like even just working with you that you kind of set it is like, the vibe I get can impact me as a designer. And I think that that Something that I want people to understand is that when you're looking for an interior designer, you need someone with amazing emotional intelligence. Because the number one thing in my mind, to selling, especially on the luxury end, when we're doing, you know, a million million, 5 million, a $2 million projects, everything that your interior designer, or you, as an investor developer can do that will increase the value of that property starts with emotion. It's the number one thing you have to pay attention to. And I will tell you that I'm definitely more emotionally intelligent than I am IQ intelligent. Because I feel things I can see things I can read people. I mean, since I've been a young kid, I realized I can read people very, very well, even when the people are lying to themselves. Yeah. And they don't know it. Yeah, I know, they're lying to themselves. And like, that's just been a gift that's been given to me. But how an interior designer makes the environment feel, I think, is the number one thing. So let's start with this. When you're designing a space, if I'm going to hire you, and you're designing the space, how do I know that you're emotionally intelligent? Number one, if I'm, I've just met you for the first time. And how do I? How what would you recommend I do to realize if you really can hit that nerve of, of creating emotion in your environments? What would you recommend me do? When it comes to that point of me trying to interview you and me trying to find an interior designer, and then actually hire them? Because that's the thing, that's the hardest thing for me, I'm, I'm having a struggle on the architecture side. I have not I've designed a lot of my the architecture on this because you work with me. Because I feel like I have a good read on the market. I have a good read on a lot of things. And I have a hard time justifying this value of what architects bring on the exterior design. I know they bring value. But the best ones are so expensive. i It's hard for me to say they bring that much value. I guess that's what I'm trying to get out to you is like, how do I know that working with you? Or how do I know that making this decision is the right decision? When I'm looking for an interior designer? How do I know how the right one?

Annie Pauza 17:15

Um, you know that? That's a good question. I think just just from knowing you and working with you, I think the costs upfront knowing what it's going to cost, and what that includes, is, first and foremost. Seeing a portfolio of past work, talking to past clients, I'm okay if someone's feeling unsure about working with me, I'm okay to give them several phone numbers of people that I've worked with so they can get talk to somebody. And then you're talking about the just the emotional connection. I always leave my company decorator in a box. There's a questionnaire on my website that goes into detail asking those questions about who lives in your space? How do you function in your space? How many kids do you have dogs? What do you do for a living and getting that lifestyle? is where you start to emotionally connect? And then secondly, is I need to see the inspiration for the room. You know this when I was working with you, that's one of the first things I asked for is his inspiration photos, which is now so awesome with websites like Pinterest and how is where when I first started out, we would bring like a stack of design magazines over to somebody's house and be like circle this rip this page out. Now people just send me their pin board, they've already been obsessing about their home, on Pinterest, so they instantly can send me that pin or sport and that really starts that emotional connection and gets me designing the house that's their style. Or if I'm working with you on an investment property, we're trying to design a space that appeals to a lot of you know, different tires, where if I'm working on you and your basement, it's gonna be all modern because you're super modern or try to have kind of a Restoration Hardware look. So I think that's another key thing is like, are they asking me a lot of questions? Are they upfront with me about what it's going to cost? And what it includes? And then are they asking me the right questions to create a space that's for me and not pushing their design style that's not mine or pushing it impractical design on me you and I have four kids and two dogs, the white sofas not gonna really hold up kind of a thing. So I guess Does that answer your question? I think

Tim Murphy 19:56

you hit it because you gave some key points is number one They're very open to their they're wanting more from you than they're wanting to tell you. And I think that's one of the things I've learned with, with the designers that I've worked with, that I like working with is that, you know, when you work with a diva designer, it's all about me, me, me. I, when you work with a designer, like Annie, it's all about you, you. Yeah. And she's always asking, What do you want? Do you have something you can show me? What price do you think is fair? What? You know what I mean? And, and Annie will also tell you, well, that price won't work because I can't make a living and I have to make a living. And it's way too crazy. But any will also be like, Yeah, okay, I gave you that price. But I'm open minded. And I think like, that's the thing that was the thing you want to avoid, you know, and episode 15 Is the diva designer, you just, you maybe for some people, that's the right thing. But for me, it's not the right thing. And I think that that's what you just touched on is that it starts with, are they paying attention to you? Do they see the pictures that you want? Do they listen and hear the design that is right for you and your family? Or for this project and the market? And are they cost cost conscious? They understand that? Hey, Tim, I understand you need to make a profit. And I understand also that, you know, you're gonna bring me repeat business over and over and over, right? And maybe new customers over and over and over. Like, I'm gonna treat you a little differently than the one client that's gonna use me once and never use me again. I think these are all things you have to pay attention to.

Annie Pauza 21:37

And there's several different like I've worked in several different design settings. So when I left, when I graduated from college, I was fortunate enough to get a interior design internship with the top designer in Minneapolis she was doing Kevin Garnett's house, Kirby pockets house, Jimmy Jam, and Chauncey Billups, like all these top and that is, that was her primary market. And so and she was that tie end, those people want you to bring them five different lamps to look at and fabrics. And it's just very, more hands on. And the only way to have that kind of high end service of running back and forth is to charge by the hour, because you are running to international market, square your shop, they want you to shop it for them. And so that was a great experience for me, because it was just seeing that high end side of things. And it really, when working with her name was Betty. When I work with Betty, she taught me the stuff like how to run a business, how to do how to keep a timecard an invoice for your time, but she just had that was her niche was this high end, very valet service. And she would then if there was customers that had a tighter budget, she would then send them to me because she understood that that's not my, my target market is not the, you know, somebody that maybe just needs a couple pillows, and they only want to spend x amount of dollars. So there so it's kind of finding the right design firm for you. Because if you go to somebody that's used to working with, you know, Kevin Garnett limited budgets, yeah, they're not gonna work well, when you're, you know, with that, so, but she understood that so she would then refer like, here, I can't do that for you. But here's somebody, but yet she had high end clients and was not a diva. So I think there's no reason to act like a diva either. I think she was definitely a trust. She was working with a very high end clientele but she was very honest with them, and they could trust her because even if you are, you know, kind of a celebrity, you even have to be a little bit more careful that your someone's not overcharging you. So they knew she was honest, as well. So that was right out of school. Then when I got married, my husband and I moved to Naples, Florida, which was an entirely different market, where I worked at a high end design firm. That was primarily snowbirds. And so it was all vacation homes and our design firm specialized in creating like all the people coming from Minnesota, or New York for the winter, all the snowbirds would come in we had to have their house designed with the towels in the cabinets, the sheets on the bed, the dishes are in the cabinets, it's turnkey, when they come in, and it's just high end golf course communities or beach communities so that taught me that style of design and working at a design firm where, okay, the client from Minnesota is coming in this weekend, we need the board's ready, we need to have a detailed list of all of our selections, what it's going to cost, they're going to sign off. And they expect when they come back this winter, they turn the key, they're ready to vacation, kind of a space. So that was really interesting. But again, that's probably not going to be the right designer for your business, either. And they probably aren't there, they're not gonna, they're gonna charge more. And they're and they have a lot of overhead, they have a huge luxury building, that they're working out of the house, a coffee bar and a meeting room in it, because they have people flying in, and they need this experience. Right? Yeah, they need this space to sell the design, but is that that's not the right fit for you, that's going to that's going to, they're going to charge too much for you. Because they're they have to pay for the building. And they have to pay for the 30 designers that they have on staff, kind of a thing. So with that journey, I moved to we then moved to Dallas, and the market was very different, where I was still trying to find a design firm to work for. And nobody was hiring, it was just kind of the market was down. And so I thought I had seen one designer do this online, interior design, where they mail the design to you with a furniture plan, a shopping list and a vision board, you have the control to do all the shopping. But you're just you're you're looking for an interior design at a flat rate. But you are willing to do the shopping and implement the design somewhat on your own. And it had never been done before. And it made me this light bulb went off in my head where I've been doing all this high end design for turnkey people or, or you're running around charging by the hour for people that have really large budgets. And I thought there's all there's this, these people that are being missed, where they just don't know what to do they tell me what to do. I watch a lot of HGTV. So I kind of have an idea, like the whole DIY TV thing was kind of booming. So when I started decorator in a box, I think it's been over 10

Annie Pauza 27:30

Maybe 11 years now that I started this online interior design business and it just took off with people that are just tell me what to go shop for. I don't need it to be, you know, here's my budget, I'll go get a target lamp, and I'll get a Crate and Barrel sofa type of thing. I

Tim Murphy 27:52

think you nailed it, I think what the market that you're hitting is, you know, I'm not ultra luxury, I don't have unlimited budget, I'm more consciously cost conscious. But what you're really hitting is vision. And I would say that that's your biggest value add to me is I don't want to be the visionary of the space. I know. Like I can give you the 30,000 foot view of what I think the market wants. But there's so much more detail in interior design than 30,000 feet. And that's really where Annie comes in is that she dot the I's and crosses the T's. She makes sure that everything's just perfect. All the little things that I would even think about. She's thinking about it to make it perfect.

Annie Pauza 28:36

Yeah. And if you're providing people with like a furniture plan, or that shopping list of selections, you're able to do it at an affordable flat rate different than the other design firms I was talking about that I worked at before. Because if you're eliminating doing all the shopping and the running around for the lamps, which most people don't want to pay someone to shop for them and run around picking up lamps by the hour, most people just tell me what lamp and I'll go order it, it's you know, so I think that's how you get a flat rate. So you know up front, what you're gonna pay versus getting this timecard every month, you know, at 100 bucks an hour or something,

Tim Murphy 29:19

I think yeah, I think you're nailing it. Because number one, they want the vision and he can easily give you a vision of what you want. Then they depending on how their price point you know, they the more expensive or the more money you're willing to spend, the more concierge service you're going to get where you know, you're going to get more of Annie's time where she's actually going out and doing things for you making you selection shopping these things. But if you're super cost conscious, she's giving you a vision and she's giving you a shopping list. And now you go to work. And that was what she did for us on our house and that's what my wife loved because it was like she couldn't see it. She didn't want to spend the time trying to figure out where to find it. And so all sudden any males This thing and it's like, boom, everything's right there. And now it's like, if you want to change something up, change it up. But if you don't like all you have to do is go here, click this button and boom, you can order it. It's like, oh, this is fantastic. Now, I want to go deeper, though, I want to go into like, your design concepts like when it comes to your design. So let's get to me and you because I think this is important for the audience. You and I work together. We're working on a project right now, which is the Utica project for social media. It's 4153 eudicots in St. Louis Park. And I want to hear this from you, because I can talk about you all day long, but the value the client gets from you. And then how do you bring that ROI? So let's talk again, from the conscious of me, Tim Murphy are the context of me, Tim Murphy, the developer investor, and working with you, Annie. Yep, how do you bring value to me in your mind, and help me get that ROI that I need to get? Because I can get a price? That's what I think I can get or even more because your design so amazing,

Annie Pauza 31:06

right? Well, I think you too, because I'm great example, because we started out, I always go you give me the address, then I go scope out the neighborhood to see what's what's the higher end neighborhood next to that where maybe that's where the the homeowner would want to be. But this is more their area here. What's the neighbors doing? Is there too much of a certain look? So it always starts with you and I kind of analyzing what's the exterior need to be to appeal to a certain not just hit a niche, but appeal to a lot of different buyers. And so with Utica, we started out with something that was a little bit transitional and style on the exterior. But I think we leaned more traditional to with like shaker on the front of it. And so I think I bring value to you in that way. We're we're we're appealing to to a large group coming up with a design that appeals to a large group of buyers. If you're more modern. If you're more traditional, you can still see yourself in that home. And then with Utica once you've sold it, and I start we switched gears, and I started working with the homeowner. We found out that she was much more traditional and Her background was she had grown up in Hibbing and she kind of liked this and had lived in St. Louis Park for a while too. So she likes that historic look.

Tim Murphy 32:46

That Let me interrupt you because I think you're you're making a great point that people have to understand. So I hire any we have I'm like Annie, I'm gonna design a spec home. Yeah, and I'm gonna build this spec home. So yeah, we're gonna build it. And he and I are but I'm like Annie, here's a couple key criteria which and I already knew about me. But we designed to meet the market. We don't design whatever we want to design and hope the market likes it. I don't work like that. Jamie's like great love it. We design something that's a little bit more trendy, but it's not so trendy that somebody walks in is like turned off by it. Okay, he's like, great. And he comes up with this amazing package. I'm like, Annie, this is fantastic. We start the construction process, we bid out Annie's design, everything we need, boom, we get going. Well, what happens is, is because and we've talked about this in the podcast, because I am a big proponent of pre selling of vision, which to me is a big part of is I go out and because I'm the real estate agent, I'm the marketer, I'm the one that goes out and sells these things. I'm out there before we even start framing, and I'm selling any any design and in our design

Annie Pauza 33:53

and our commission boards on the listing, yeah,

Tim Murphy 33:57

right. And he comes up with these vision boards. And so like we put that in the marketing, so people can see each one of any selections from you know, the cabinet style to the colors to the lighting, the tile, countertops, everything, right, and she does a great job of that. And so we're able to paint that picture for the consumer that has some vision in their mind. And we were lucky on this project to find someone that fell in love with the exterior look, because she had a very she was very selective on what she was looking for. And she loved the exterior look. And then she saw the interior and the floor plan. She's like, Okay, now her first question was, well, I like a lot of what you're doing, but can I make changes? And right there you guys, this is where the team player comes in. Because Annie can be like Tim, you didn't hire me for this. Now I can tell you I gave Annie an upfront you know heads up like any this could happen and she's like okay with that, but there's a lot of interior designers, especially if you're with a diva designer, she's like, well, this isn't what I signed up for. I'm not interested. Well, if you find that person or you're working with that person, like the first interior designer I work with, you're screwed. Because what am I going to say? Oh, no, sorry, if you don't like this design that we have, we're not going to sell you the house. Right? And and the thing was, is, you want to know how big of a mistake that would be. We were marking that house at $875,000. Because we had the flexibility. And because Andy was on the team and a team player. We then took that $875,000 design, and we ended up selling the house for 950,000. Mm hmm. So that's 75,000 more than what I would put it to market for any and he was like, You know what, Tim? This is fine. I will I will do it. i Okay, well have a call with her and call me back. Because you know what, I know I'm gonna owe you more money. And he's like, no, no, no, we'll be fine. I'm like any stock.

Unknown Speaker 35:52

Because Oh,

Annie Pauza 35:53

we kind of gauged it. I was like, ish. Maybe if she needs like a light fixture? Re selected and tile, then it's, we're good. But then once I talked to her, I'm like, No, we're like, redesigning.

Tim Murphy 36:07

I'm like, Eddie, no, you need to talk to her. Because I've been talking to her for like, 60 days. It's not gonna be that simple. Yeah. Okay. And that was the beauty is that that was a given take Emily, and Annie's like, okay, you know, what I think I'm gonna need, there's gonna be more time involved in this, Tim. And I'm like, fine, whatever, because I just sold it for 75,000. More like, yeah, Annie, you need to get more money. Because if part of the experience also that he provides is a customer experience, and the customer experience is invaluable, because at the end of the day, if the customer refers us if they enjoy this experience, you know, as an infield developer, as a new construction guy, I cannot preface how bad people screw up the customer experience in new construction. It's not always gonna go perfect in new construction. And that's all the more reason you need an Annie that says, You know what, I'm gonna do everything I can to make them feel like, everything's going amazing, you know, from the design perspective, because the design perspective is the most fun thing for them to do. As long as they don't get stressed out about it. Annie is awesome about making it fun and making it not stressful. Well, I think that that point I want to make when you're looking for someone, you have to look for that team player that's willing to be flexible, especially if you're an investor, especially if you do things the way I do. And they're more than willing to say, Okay, let's pivot, let's make a move.

Annie Pauza 37:33

Right? Well, and I think too, it's important, like we design that initially very transitional you and I always lean a little bit more modern, because that's what what we like. So it was a little bit more modern, but the family that ended up buying Utica, they were a little bit more classic traditional yet, we designed it. So yes, it was mainly redesigning and re picking a lot of tile, but they had something to build from and to see. And it wasn't so off modern, trendy, that they couldn't see their look in there. So it was really just kind of like changing the design that was maybe a little bit too modern, making it more classic, a little bit more historic style. And I think that's where you know, a good design, good design. And a good designer is somebody that can create multiple different styles. If there's a designer that's kind of I guess, what I would call it as kind of a one trick pony where you keep putting the same look over and over and a house but if if you had been this is maybe what you ran into with the diva designer you were working with before they have kind of one style they can do and it's hard for them to switch and be like wait now the homeowners wanting this to be more classic traditional but I don't necessarily know how to do that because I always do a more transitional or modern space so you need to be able to find going back to what the the Pinterest boards and the inspiration is you need to find their style and then be able to implement their vision what feels like their vision and what feels like their their home to them not what my house or your house is going to look like. Whichever set modern for them. Yeah.

Tim Murphy 39:29

So any like let's talk through the let's just walk our listeners through kind of the experience that you had on Utica. So number one, I reached out to me I said are you interested? Yes this would be awesome. Number two is any okay I need inspiration I need you to come up with a design but then I need to come up with design board so that I can pre market this and I will I will deal with the exterior elevation you don't have to worry about that you just give me everything interior she's like fantastic easily can do that. No problem. Then the next thing that Annie goes above and beyond on is like, Oh, by the way, I'm going to literally give you a shopping list. Every single item that is going to go into this house and exactly where you can buy it,

Annie Pauza 40:11

I'm like, the faucet the tile. Yeah, I don't I don't buy it so that it's ready. So if you do sell it, and they say, I love it, that could you're good to go. You could just hand that whole design off if they if they like it, which sometimes that can happen where maybe they just said, No, I just don't like those knobs or I don't like that light. Can we change that? That's the ideal situation

Tim Murphy 40:36

contractor. It's fantastic. Because you know, whether it's our in house team of, you know, like Diana, who works with me, or it's Chris's assistant, she just goes, Okay, this is everything. Okay, let's order it all up. Yeah. And now it's like, it's literally there. You ordered up? Nobody has to think no, it's just less brainpower. Less time. Yeah. So she did that. Now I go out there, I market it, I sell it. And I'm like, okay, Annie. Now, how's the experience going to work from that point forward? And he kind of walk us through? Like, what did you do with the client, because you guys, when I talk about return on time, this is where any brings a huge return on time for all of us. This is where your designer can really make a big difference in in your ability to go out and find the next project for everyone to benefit, instead of you sitting there hand holding the customer, which can be time consuming. So tell us about what you did at that point. When I'm like, okay, Annie, you're gonna have to sit down with her, and then boom, boom, boom, all the way to now which and he's completely done making all the selections for this client. And we are basically just building the house that Annie and the client designed, kind of walk them through that.

Annie Pauza 41:41

So I called the homeowner, she was somebody that had already been really thinking a lot about the house. So she had her Pinterest boards ready, and I said, send them over to me. And then I will try to take your Pinterest inspiration and then update the design that we already have. So and then we talked about some things over the phone that were important to her as well. So we had a phone conversation. She emailed me her Pinterest, boards of lighting, tile, things she loved. It wasn't all the selections, but it gave me a good idea of oh, she's she's very classic, timeless wants this to look a little bit like a historic home. But she has a modern twist. So she she likes a little modern. So she sent me the Pinterest boards. And then I went through that detailed shopping list that I had reviewed with you and I just went line item, tweaking it to look a bit more classic traditional, implementing her pins, but tying it in with stuff she hadn't thought of that you that you can't think of unless you're an interior designer of how it's kind of a domino. If you change this floor, now we need to change the shower walls. Now we better change the faucet and the knobs. So I just went through creating more of a classic design than we had a second meeting going through that design again, where I emailed her the selection shopping list. And she came back and emailed some notes of I like this, I don't like this, how about this. So we just we just did kind of two rounds of revisions, and then got to a place that we felt good to kind of finalize lighting, and plumbing and tile from there. And then we had as far as paint. She really wanted to get to a certain point in the construction process to see that in the house. So she already had kind of paint ideas. So we ordered samples based on a discussion of what we want the island to be in the perimeter cabinets. And then we met at the house to kind of look at those and obsess over paint colors a little bit inside the house. And, yeah, and so we kind of just buttoned it up from there.

Tim Murphy 44:01

But what did she say about her experience with you? I mean, just give us some feedback. I know you are like the most humble person on earth. So this is gonna be really hard for you to do but what did she say? Oh my gosh, Annie, you know what, you just make this so easy. What's the feedback that she gave me?

Annie Pauza 44:15

I should ask her but I think she was a situation where we're, we're close in age. She knows what she likes. So I think it almost became what felt like a fast friendship or somebody you feel like you know, for a little while, but I should ask her for some more direct feedback. But from what I can tell, it seemed very like effortless that we were on the same page because I was just trying to help her implement her vision. There was no butting heads or if I saw her maybe picking us where I come in as she'll pick a light fixture that's too small or too big. As a designer, you have a better concept of scale. And we can put that on the plan and see how things fit a little bit. too, so just kind of guiding, implementing her style, guiding to make sure there's no mistakes made. And I think I can tell her, she felt good about it just based on just based on how effortless it seemed to kind of get the contractor what he needed. And

Tim Murphy 45:20

now let's talk about the last thing, which is kind of something that's a little bit new for Annie, because it's something she only does when she works with me. But yeah, just like making sure I'm a huge proponent of any, I really need to know that your design integrity is followed through the entire project. Because there's one thing I'll tell you, working with contractors, they're not designers, they just show up and they do the work. You need to make sure though, that they're doing the work that you want them to do, and they're doing it how you want them to do. And one of the biggest things there is the tie, alright, any and it was funny, because just the other day and he goes, I'm going over to the house to make sure they're doing the Tyler, like, tell him about that how you make sure, again, return on time, as he makes sure that her design integrity is followed through because, again, a contractor, they can screw up a design in 30 seconds, because they might think that this isn't look good. But it's not their job to think of it looks good. It's their job to just do what we want them to do so that we get the final product that we're going after,

Annie Pauza 46:24

right? Well, when I'm working with you, I'm able to go on site to kind of review things and drawings that I can only do locally. So if so I'll do a tile diagram. In this client's case, it was not very detailed tile, so there was just really one area that you have to kind of make sure that won't get get messed up and be installed the wrong way. So I'll do tiled diagrams, where you draw an elevation of what the backsplash is going to look like, on the kitchen, the shower walls. And I don't necessarily do that for every room, but in areas that I know could probably get a mistake could be made. I do that. And then I just meet when the when the tile contractor is about to install, and the tile is there, we just walk through room by room and review that diagram. But since with decorator in a box, I work with clients all over the country. Well, that's

Tim Murphy 47:28

what I wanted to get into. So I think we've nailed exactly the experience that Annie delivers for myself as an infill developer and working with an investor and a contractor. And I think to end off the podcast, I think you let's talk about this, because Annie has a very unique business, which gives her so much flexibility and brings a lot of value. And that's called her company that's called decorator, my decorator in a box.

Annie Pauza 47:51

Right? Yeah, decorator in a box. decorator in

Tim Murphy 47:53

a box is, is her company. And her company is an online company, where she actually if you could be anywhere in the world, and you could say, Here's my space, Annie, can you help me paint a vision and help me find the stuff that that you know, makes your vision come to life? So talk a little bit about about that business? And how you really bring value from anywhere and like, how can you like this is the thing that I think is amazing. And he's designing for people in New York, for people in Austin, for people in Minnesota and for people in California. Those are all four different design looks and feels like how do you do that?

Annie Pauza 48:35

It definitely the decorator in a box client is definitely a certain type of client to where they don't necessarily require a lot of hand holding and but yet, I'm still holding their hand by providing them with everything, they need to easily implement the design on their own, or just hand it to their contractor and then their contractor can go through it. And and that's that's just just going through the process of what their what their needs are for the space. If it's a kitchen remodel, you provide that you work directly with their their cabinet designer, so they can get a set of drawings picking out with the door style, everything they need the countertop, the plumbing for that. So just getting them the drawings that they need for the design is is key. But mainly that shopping list or selection list I provide is huge. Because that's going to go through each selection of here's your faucet, here's your countertops, here's down to Okay, you've got floating shelves, what's on the floating shelves, the cookbooks the so it gives them everything they need to visualize it but then it also is makes it easier for them to work with their contractor and then they can hand that design to their contractor. And then he can start pricing it out and ordering things for them. So it's it's just a matter of having it the presentation in an easy to visualize way for the for the homeowner and the client. And then also for the contractor who probably doesn't care so much about the, the design of it just wants the selections. They're usually like, just give me the selections, what is it? What do I give to the, you know, MSI countertops? What do I give to the, the plumber and stuff like that? So, does that make sense? Or did I kind of go?

Tim Murphy 50:36

No, no, it totally makes sense. And it's, you know, Annie, it's just awesome having you on because your perspective is just, I don't I hope people take what we said and all the things we went through because there's so much value in the last 50 minutes of conversation here. We're gonna have you back. And we're definitely going to have you back into our private value investor community, I would really like to create some courses or some concepts around design because I just think that it's so complicated and people especially when I was flipping small houses like 250 $300,000 houses, the general contractors, they just look at it on such a 50,000 foot view, and they miss so many details around design that I now appreciate so much more working with you working with Jill, because I've seen how it emotionally attaches people to our products or builds a brand in our community because you are paying attention to every little detail so I really think that you know what we're gonna have to collaborate and bring something to our private value to an investor community that really lays this thing out because I think that if if they can lay it out for their contractors the way that you do for us the you're talking 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of dollars in additional profits so any you know what it was a fantastic having you on today. Thanks. That's gonna be coming back. Oh, right.

Annie Pauza 52:10

are looking forward to it. Thanks for having me. This was so fun.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai